Media ID 0232-AB
Parliamentary Committee Stages (20 November 1985) of the Homosexual Law Reform Bill
Graeme Lee, Helen Clarke, Roger Maxwell, Trevor Young, Whetu Tirikatene Sullivan, Winston Peters
Committee Stages span 0231 – 0238
This summary gives general themes as to the content of this recording. It is not a verbatim transcript. Always refer back to the original audio. This is a working document and any amendments/corrections are welcome.
Helen Clarke [continued from 0231-B]
Roger Maxwell - this Bill has created debate but also played an educative role.. this Bill should not proceed..
Winston Peters – point of order.. clarify the subject matter
Tony Friedlander – point of order
Chairman – we are bound by relevance in this debate..
Maxwell – Commission of Enquiry is not really an adequate solution.. an independent newspaper has found that over 90% of the signatures on the petition were genuine.. Wolfenden Report.. AIDS.. clause five encourages homosexuality.. Part Two – discrimination ..
Trevor Young - I support the Royal Commission amendment.. this issue warrants deeper consideration.. if we have a referendum tomorrow this Bill would be thrown out..
Chairman – the Member for Invercargill (Norm Jones) has taken three calls of five minutes
Graeme Lee – age benchmark clause.. sixteen – an age promoted by the homosexual community.. it would be a dark day for this nation if the Bill was passed at sixteen.. correspondence from the Gay Task Force .. Kinsey studies show that in homosexuals, homosexuality is a learnt behaviour in over 50% of cases.. predisposition converted into orientation.. New Zealand survey.. what we have from the homosexual community is unnatural and unreasonable..
Lee – definition of “adult” .. aged twenty in this country.. I want to quote Noel Mosen – an ex-gay activist.. he says there is a bias to younger people..
Whetu Tirikatene Sullivan – I want to speak to the amendment.. the Royal Commission should study the homosexual international socio-political movement.. “those who cannot remember are condemned to repeat” .. We have lessons to learn .. New Zealand is following the American sequence.. even though we are aware of the outcomes.. In New York.. AIDS.. closing “Mine Shaft Tavern” gay bar.. it is a rear-guard action by the authorities.. Why are we not learning from them.. Where New Zealand ignores the American experience.. we are condemned to end up with a similar epidemic..
Tirikatene Sullivan – “The Homosexual in America”.. activism.. gay liberation movement.. consider the young of this generation..
Tirikatene Sullivan – clause seven, redefines adult to sixteen.. this Bill legitimises sodomy.. it makes it a permissible defence where a boy of twelve has been sodomized by an older boy .. In countries overseas.. the young have been sort and enticed.. the most highly desirable group for homosexual tourists are the young Polynesian boys.. Who has provided the young prostitutes for the gay movement – the young Black group and the young Hispanic group..
Tirikatene Sullivan – why are we ignoring AIDS.. it is beginning here.. who will be the most condemned group – the Maori and Polynesian.. Do not let that Bill pass..
Winston Peters – The young Maori will be the person most abused as the consequence of the passage of this Bill .. I will oppose this Bill.. Wolfenden Report.. AIDS.. As of 1 October 1985, twelve confirmed AIDS-proper cases in New Zealand .. seven have died..
Peters – this is the wrong Bill at the wrong time.. we are spending over three million dollars on AIDS.. this Bill is the wrong Bill at the wrong time..
Peters – duty to our taxpayers.. discrimination – concern about linking with discrimination of Maori and Nazi Germany .. linkage of conveyance with Maori discrimination..
John Banks – point of order ..
Geoffrey Palmer – point of order
Winston Peters – example of American Negroes and the Vietnam debate..
Trevor Mallard – point of order
Winston Peters – Fran Wilde’s linkage to Nazi Germany.. Historically not true.. Brownshirts were started by Ernst Rohm - a homosexual .. leading officers in the Brownshirts were homosexuals.. the Brownshirts created Dachau.. Part Two of this Bill is a mockery .. bring the whole truth out of the closet..
Chairman – order, we are well away from what is relevant.. we are dealing with the technical clauses..
Philip Burdon – point of order
Merv Wellington - point of order ..
Winston Peters – I was speaking to the amendment.. I’m speaking on why we need a Royal Commission.. simply, Hitler owed the foundation, in large part, to that maniacal regime to a homosexual order.. the linkage with the Jewish extermination is not true.. in large part they [homosexuals] created him..
Michael Cullen – move to report progress
George Gair – point of order
Chairman – vote .. division called for.. the ayes 43, noes 33.. I will report progress
[General atmosphere in Chamber]
Speaker - The House is resumed.. leave to sit again.. this Bill is set down for further consideration
Geoffrey Palmer – call for urgency be accorded to the introduction of Government Bills..
Jim Bolger – point of order