Media ID 0169-A
Public forum on mental health and homosexuality (1978) with Jolyon Allen (Psychologist), Adrian Webster (Trade Unionist) and Don Mence (Presbyterian Minister)
Adrian Webster, Don Mence, Jolyon Allen
This summary gives general themes as to the content of this recording. It is not a verbatim transcript. Always refer back to the original audio. This is a working document and any amendments/corrections are welcome.
Public forum on mental health and homosexuality with Jolyon Allen (Psychologist) on “orgasmic reorientation” Adrian Webster (Trade Unionist) on civil rights and trade unions, transsexuals and state services Don Mence (Presbyterian Minister) on churches and homosexuality. Held in Auckland.
Gay Rights .. four speakers .. small and cosy audience..
Jolyon Allen (Psychologist)
Allen – attitudes towards homosexuality in the mental health area
Allen – homosexuality is not seen as a problem.. we are not treating people for homosexuality.. acute admission wards.. one of my colleagues does treat homosexual couples for sexual problems..
Allen – horror stories of the past .. re-orientation.. aversion therapy.. electric shocks – not E.C.T.
Allen – if someone presents and wants to be reoriented the psychologist makes sure that it is the person who wants to change.. I work with psychiatrists – homosexuality has been taken out of the diagnostic manual.. no longer a psychiatric disorder..
Allen – transsexual operations.. covert desensitisations concentrates on fantasy life.. Playboy therapy.. it’s based on the theory that orgasm happens regardless of sexual proclivity .. orgasmic reorientation..
Allen – of 100 admissions we would get one homosexual
Adrian Webster (trade unionist) on civil rights and trade unions
Webster – dealing with stigmatised groups in society.. in the private sector
Webster – since 1973.. Industrial Relations Act.. unfair dismissal.. grievance procedures.. Arbitration Court..
Webster – Public Service.. State Services Act provides protection .. cannot be dismissed without a charge being brought against them under the State Services Act.. procedures..
Webster – don’t know any cases that have been brought in the private sector
Webster – you can appeal your own non-promotion..
Webster – abortion issues..
Webster – in some places homosexuality has been seen as a security risk..
Don Mence (Presbyterian minister) on churches and homosexuality
Mence – any criticisms I make are not against the MCC.. the Church has been a very poor friend of the homosexual.. those who happen to be Gay Ministers in the Church are in a sticky situation..
Mence – the subject of homosexuality is being well and truly aired in the Churches.. there are many working hard for reform.. Any change will be slow and painful – but certain..
Mence – there are those believe the Bible is the word of God.. there are those that believe the Bible contains the word of God but with some human mistakes.. a matter of principals..
Mence – we believe there is a valid alternative.. homosexuality does not come under the wrath of God.. two distinct interpretations.. slanging matches.. it’s going to be a slow process.. if we can persuade both groups that there are the two valid arguments we will be making progress..
Mence – within the Church it is painful to admit that you are gay.. we have no union.. you can be unfrocked.. many people have been frightened out of the Ministry..
Mence – I was asked if I was gay.. there are a considerable number of men in the same situation in the Church.. for those of us who have been Ministers..
Mence – where there is disagreement .. it is the spirit with which the disagreement is dealt with.. responsible words.. courteous weight to bear.
Mence – the victory is certain.. the weight of liberal opinion within the church is growing .. more and more are saying please teach us.. work groups.. change of climate.. the church is going to be our ally.
Mence – the reaction to “Jesus was a homosexual” .. we cannot know so lets keep our trap shut