Media ID   0204-B    

Parliamentary debate (8 March 1985) on the introduction of the Homosexual Law Reform Bill

Unique ID



Alan Wallbank, Geoff Braybrooke, Gerald Wall, Graeme Lee, Helen Clarke, Merv Wellington, Michael Cullen, Paul East

Related media

0204-A, 0205-A


Source tape





8 March 1985







Recorded by


Phil Parkinson

Deposited by


Phil Parkinson


Continues on 0205-A. Refer also to 0204-A


This summary gives general themes as to the content of this recording. It is not a verbatim transcript. Always refer back to the original audio. This is a working document and any amendments/corrections are welcome.



Geoff Braybrooke – I oppose the introduction of this Bill .. un-natural and perverted acts.. This Bill seeks to give a cloak of acceptability to homosexual acts.. it will influence young people.. It is a threat to society and family life.. Homosexuals require medical and psychological treatment.. New Zealanders want a decent society.. This House has a responsibility to protect family life.. They will then want gay marriages and adoption of children.. this is repugnant..



Braybrooke – I have been lobbied by homosexuals.. I am convinced that their actions are evil and perverted .. gay militants.. My own family have been insulted.. Armed forces.. I spent twenty years in the armed forces .. we are opening a Pandora’s box.. Academic debate/moral issue.. age of consent.. I sympathise with their medical problem..



Braybrooke – I give notice to this House .. I will introduce a Private Members Bill to initiate a referendum.. I oppose the Bill..



Graeme Lee – this is a repugnant Bill.. I don’t condemn the homosexual person.. it is the behaviour.. Indecent to decent.. The spread of homosexuality.. homosexuals are not born – it is a learnt behaviour.. We should only move when there is overwhelming evidence .. and it’s just not there.. With the explosion of homosexuality AIDS has increased..



Lee – Religious arguments.. The Old Testament.. our system is built on Judo Christian ethic..



Lee – Who can tell me the New Zealand public wants change? Where is this leading to.. there’s a moral madness.. humanist overtones in a lot of legislation.. abortion on demand..



Speaker – order



Lee – Sorry, I feel angry about this matter.. What about the family unit.. your son at the age of sixteen could be recruited..



Gerald Wall – We need to think about things logically .. Should we be putting homosexuals in jail with other males.. stamping out behaviour by putting people in environments where they are likely to be involved in that behaviour. I will support the introduction.. I do not agree with equality for the age of consent.. Boys tend to be two-to-three years slower in their maturity at this age..



Wall – Discrimination part of the Bill.. AIDS.. Three current approaches - Abolish or restrict promiscuity amongst homosexuals.. safe sex.. drug users.. all of those groups are resistant to advice.. With the passage of this legislation the hope is that more people will make themselves available for counselling.. a cure looks remote.. I will support the Bills introduction..



Merv Wellington – I am opposed to this Bill.. what good does it do? How will the community benefit? .. we should trust our own judgement in these matters.. I served as a secondary school teacher.. This Bill will bring untold misery and dissatisfaction.. what good will this Bill do? Norm Jones was right when he said that the people outside of this House will be surprised we are debating this issue at this time.. Is this a way of diverting Parliament from more important issues?



Michael Cullen - this is a Private Members Bill



Merv Wellington – in conclusion .. is it essential or desirable, right or wrong.. it is certainly not right



Helen Clarke – Tribute to Fran Wilde.. It is always easier not to take a position on matters of this kind.. Human Rights issue.. What happens in private is none of my business.. I support the introduction of this Bill.. It is unjust to oppress a section of society.. among Western countries New Zealand and Ireland are the only countries that have blanket criminal sanctions on homosexuality .. it is a blot on our Human Rights record..



Clarke - The Bill doesn’t promote homosexuality.. protection.. myths about homosexuality.. homosexuality is a normal part of human sexuality.. Kinsey research.. we do damage to homosexuals when we oppress them.. our current law promotes promiscuity..



Paul East – we have to grapple with out own conscience. Homosexual behaviour is unnatural .. if it is lawful it will be more visible and will be accepted as a normal way of life.. But should we persecute.. I will vote for the first reading of this Bill with reluctance.. age of consent.. teenagers are impressionable.. the age limit should be twenty years of age.. Human Rights amendments.. AIDS..



Allan Wallbank – What is written in the Bible is the right and proper way.. In the New Testament.. homosexuality is a very dangerous act .. AIDS.