Media ID   0215-B    

Parliamentary debate (16 October 1985) on the second reading of the Homosexual Law Reform Bill

Unique ID



Helen Clarke, Judy Keall, Phil Goff, Philip Burdon

Related media

0215-A, 0216-A


Source tape





16 October 1985







Recorded by


Barry Neels

Deposited by


Barry Neels


Parliamentary debate on the second reading spans 0213 – 0223, and 0206


This summary gives general themes as to the content of this recording. It is not a verbatim transcript. Always refer back to the original audio. This is a working document and any amendments/corrections are welcome.



Philip Burdon [continued from 0215-A] - AIDS.. crude acts performed between homosexuals.. sodomy.. twenty should be the age of consent.. I believe in the rights of the individual.. health risks.. there should be a higher age of consent.. I accept the present law is hypocritical .. I foreshadow my intention to put forward an amendment to raise the age of consent to twenty..



Judy Keall – I’m speaking tonight for people who are personal friends of mine from all walks of life.. I support this Bill in its entirety.. I come from a traditional Christian background..



Keall – I believe the Bill has had a fair hearing.. The criminal law should not punish private consenting behaviour.. The law should be concerned with protecting people from harm not what they do in the privacy of their own home.. Part two - discrimination.. it is not prescribing attitudes .. it is talking about discrimination in the supply of goods and services, accommodation and employment..



Keall - homosexuality is not a disease .. quoting Health Department submission.. removal from manual of mental disorders.. homosexuality is not a choice..



Keall – looking at examples in other Western countries.. Britain 1967, Europe.. examples of age of consent from around the world..



Keall – homosexuals are members of families.. response to argument against the breakdown of the family.. while we have this law there’ll be many men pressured into heterosexual relationships..



Keall – in my ideal society .. we’d be accepting of different lifestyles.. looking back at Nazi Germany .. homosexuals killed..



Keall – age of consent .. should be sixteen.. it is the age of Carnal Knowledge for young women..



Keall – spread of AIDS.. In California homosexual acts have been decriminalized and in Florida it is still illegal.. In South Australia, where it has been decriminalized there have been no cases of AIDS.. AIDS Foundation education programme ..



Keall – we should give this Bill a second reading..



Phil Goff – I support the Bill in its present form.. it is outdated criminal legislation.. opinion in my electorate is divided.. many of the churchs in my electorate are for reform..



Goff – Should personal morality be imposed by law.. that is not the proper role of the law.. three important words -consent, adult, private.. protection for minors..



Goff – I strongly object to receiving from someone purporting to be a crusader for morality homosexual pornography



Goff- Iran example .. should we be putting all immoral acts into law..



Goff – Part Two.. discrimination.. blackmail.. physical abuse.. people have been forced to live in the shadows.. psychological distress and suicide.. promiscuity.. mass conversions.. law reform does not promote homosexuality.. human rights observance.. sexual orientation is inherent ..discrimination.. employment, accommodation



Goff – AIDS.. primary transmission – sexual activity.. the answer is the education campaign by the AIDS Foundation and the Health Department.. not enhanced by the current criminal law.. in conclusion, this Bill should be supported by the House.. people should not be persecuted because of their sexual orientation



Helen Clarke – I have supported this Bill since its introduction.. personal freedoms.. some would seek to see the law enforce morals.. remarkable freedom in this country.. World Human Rights Guide rates New Zealand at 96%.. If we pass this Bill we will get a rating of 100%.. brief history of the current law..



Clarke – age of consent .. an arbitrary age.. sexual preference is fixed early in life.. homosexuality is a fundamental tendency in human behaviour.. we have very little choice in the matter [continues on 0216-A]