Media ID   0217-AB    

Parliamentary debate (16 October 1985 and 23 October 1985) on the second reading of the Homosexual Law Reform Bill

Unique ID



Ann Hercus, Koro Wetere, Merv Wellington, Peter Tapsell, Rob Storey

Related media

0216-B, 0218-AB


Source tape





16 October 1985, 23 October 1985







Recorded by


Barry Neels

Deposited by


Barry Neels


Parliamentary debate on the second reading spans 0213 – 0223, and 0206


This summary gives general themes as to the content of this recording. It is not a verbatim transcript. Always refer back to the original audio. This is a working document and any amendments/corrections are welcome.




Parliamentary debate (16 October 1985) on the second reading of the Homosexual Law Reform Bill



Rob Storey [continued from 0216-B] – The Gay Rights Movement / Heylen Poll in Huntley 55% favoured a law change.. a poll of 400 people 56% respondents were against a law change.. 7 churches were for, 4 were against..



Storey – I didn’t find the petition an extreme document.. there were extremes on both sides.. 4,580 signed the petition against the Law Reform Bill.. I’ve had two conflicting petitions..



Storey – I am opposed to both parts of the Bill.. AIDS.. A petition from an expert surgeon that was not heard by the Committee.. Dr Geoffrey Wyn Jones.. he makes a couple of points .. needle-stick danger to nurses and doctors.. New Zealand product guard to prevent needle-stick.. all sexually transmitted diseases can be transmitted by anal intercourse.. Syphilis in the UK.. a high proportion of male homosexuals become Hepatitis A antigen positive within two years of becoming active homosexuals.. Hepatitis B..



Storey – anal sex is a major risk of AIDS.. I hold up two photographs of the lining of the rectum and vaginal mucosa.. anal sex is the major cause of AIDS..



Storey – If there was an amendment that met the needs of the homosexual community but did not give the message to the public that anal sex [because of the concern of AIDS] was an ok form of sexual intercourse.. then I would be prepared to consider supporting it



Koro Wetere – Maori Women’s Welfare League endorse this Bill.. proverb: what is the greatest thing on this earth – it is people, it is people, it is people.



Wetere - my intention is to support the Bill.. I want to congratulate the member of Wellington Central.. A great number of Maori have joined this section of the community



Merv Wellington – Koro Wetere has the authority to speak for the Maori people.. I said to him – speak for the Maori people.. but his comments tonight were ambiguous.. who has hammered him into shape.. is he speaking for the Maori Queen .. is he speaking for the four quarters



Fred Gerbic (?) – point of order, the member hasn’t talked to the Bill as yet



Wellington – I record my disappointment.. who has been at him? Does he reflect the views of the Maori Queen?.. his speech would not go down well at St Stevens or Queen Victoria in Parnell, Auckland.. this Bill does not serve our young people.. I am sure Matt Rata would be disappointed..



Wellington – I want to pay tribute to the Member for Hauraki, Gisborne, Napier.. I pay tribute to the people who have backed these Members.. Keith Hay.. Sir Peter Tait.. And if the Member for Eden go on I shall ask the question where is Ms ??.. the Member should keep his mouth shut



Wellington – the concessions of the weak are the concessions of fear ..stick to your guns..



Wellington – Members changing their minds..



Wellington – To introduce this Bill with the age of consent at sixteen will sow the seeds of discord and dissent in the schools .. fourth and fifth formers.. The Member for Western Maori has fled the chamber.



Speaker – warning



Wellington – a thing may look good in theory but be ruinous in practise..



Wellington - What is that gives Fran Wilde the monopoly on human wisdom in 1985.. the Members who change their minds are history .. these are weighty matters.. I have heard a lot about rights .. but not a thing about responsibilities .. let’s think about the sixteen year olds



Speaker – this debate will continue next sitting day



Parliamentary debate (23 October 1985) on the second reading of the Homosexual Law Reform Bill .. debate over whether Merv Wellington actually finished his speech.



Speaker – calling Ann Hercus



Ann Hercus – I made a commitment to my electorate that I would hold a referendum in my electorate..



Merv Wellington - am I not to entitled to finish my speech [from previous sitting]



Speaker – the Member for Papakura (Merv Wellington) is suspended from this House.



Don McKinnon – point of order .. I ask you allow the Member to conclude his speech..



Winston Peters – points of order..



Ann Hercus - holding a referendum in my electorate.. I speak as the Member for Lyttelton.. 3,731 were returned .. 13 were invalid.. 3,718 valid ballot papers.. 53.3% support decriminalisation.. The Hay petition .. I would speculate that the Hay petition has over-represented and misrepresented those in the Lyttelton electorate.



Hercus -Of those who supported decriminalisation, 75% support the age of sixteen, 85% support anti-discrimination measures..



Hercus - I’m a Christian and a family woman.. my God is not punitive or oppressive.. homosexuals are part of families.. adults are children of parents.. distinguishing morals from law.. law and morality are over lapping circles..



Peter Tapsell – the general public are very poorly informed.. the polls are unreliable in judging public feeling.. age of consent.. [continues on 0218-AB]