Media ID   0234-A    

Parliamentary Committee Stages (25 March 1986) of the Homosexual Law Reform Bill and a news report on the drawn out nature of Parliamentary proceedings and new anti-discrimination laws passed in New York to combat AIDS (ca 20 March 1986)

Unique ID



Fran Wilde, Fran Wilde, Geoff Braybrooke, Jim Anderton, Kate Leslie, Maurice McTigue, Roger McClay, Trevor Young

Related media

0233-B, 0234-B


Source tape





ca 20 March 1986, 25 March 1986



Commercial Radio, Parliament



Commercial Radio, Parliament

Recorded by


Barry Neels

Deposited by


Barry Neels


Committee Stages span 0231 – 0238


This summary gives general themes as to the content of this recording. It is not a verbatim transcript. Always refer back to the original audio. This is a working document and any amendments/corrections are welcome.



Commercial News reports



Fran Wilde – Most of the MPs would now like to get the Bill voted on and out of Parliament so we can spend time on other issues.. it is near the end..



Kate Leslie, AIDS Foundation - New anti discrimination law in New York..5,500 AIDS patients.. prevent the spread of AIDS



Parliamentary Committee Stages (25 March 1986) of the Homosexual Law Reform Bill



Speaker – order of amendments.. I declare the House in Committee..



Roger McClay – Reminder to Fran Wilde that personal abuse will not help this Bill move through the Committee Stages smoothly.. there were 830,000 people who didn’t want a bar of this Bill.. I don’t care if the number was half.. This measure has become a Government measure.. Government Members have refused to listen to New Zealanders on a range of issues.. why must this country have the most liberal laws on homosexuality in the western world..



McClay - No law change is going to change the attitude of 830,000 people.. age of consent.. alarm at the age of twelve..



Geoff Braybrooke – this is not a Government Bill.. it has nothing to do with party politics.. I am against this Bill.. speaking to the Armed Forces amendment.. relationships in Armed Forces.. discipline ..each and every soldier is a walking blood bank.. AIDS..



Braybrooke – People in the Armed Forces detest gays .. kiss me goodnight Sgt Major could become a reality.. pamphlets that point to gays in the military.



Maurice McTigue – it is a time to be counted.. Gods law / mans law .. why do we pray daily in the House.. setting a moral standard.. the act of sodomy on someone aged twelve.. I am glad that my standards and values were not developed by gay people – they would be substantially different if they had been .. it will damage the family unit..



McTigue – clause four deals with indecent assault on a man or a boy.. at the age of sixteen years we have under-developed emotional values.. sexual harassment..



Roger McClay – Maurice McTigue is reflecting the views of the vast majority of New Zealand..



Chairman – leaves the chair



McClay – Why is it that New Zealand should have the most liberal homosexual laws.. Armed Forces.. why is it just the Armed Forces that need to adhere to these considerations.. what about teachers.. what about lawyers.. what about the health questions..



McClay – where are we leading this nation.. this is not the measure that New Zealand wants.. show some moral fibre.. what is the significance of the age of consent.. the attitudes of the nation are not going to change..



Jim Anderton – people are not made good or bad by the acts of Parliament.. This Bill intends to foster equality in the law.. you cannot legislate for goodness.. protection of the common good.. the time for equality is now.. Christian values.. I want to remind Members of the House.. Pontius Pilate held a referendum .. he wanted to wash his hands of the decision..



Anderton – clauses four and five.. prison terms - performing indecent assault or anal intercourse on a boy under the age of sixteen is punishable by the same sentence range as that of murder..



Anderton - reading letter of a young British policeman prior to law reform in Britain.. to criminalize private morality..



Geoff Braybrooke – I used to be a London policeman.. homosexuality is a social evil and must not be condoned by this country.. other countries now bitterly regret that they have liberalized and changed the law.. decriminalising homosexuality.. new laws in New York example..



Braybrooke – in the city of Napier, many do not support the Bill .. Armed Forces.. any gay in the Armed Forces will get a short, sharp, shift.. Waiouru is now becoming the butt of many jokes..



Braybrooke – they have ridiculed the petition.. I’m surprised that the gay community has not organised a petition..



Fran Wilde – New York situation.. They have just passed anti-discrimination laws.. age of consent – the age of sixteen already exists in the Crimes Act.. equality.. Salvation Army saying legalizing sodomy for twelve year olds.. Carnal Knowledge clause..



Trevor Young – there are now sixteen amendments for this Bill.. that emphasizes to me that this Parliament is not in a position to process this Bill.. I have moved an amendment to remove clause three.. indecencies on boys under sixteen.. it is to our peril that we move to endorse this Bill.. we could look at this when the Crimes Act comes up for review..



Young - age of consent .. violence in our community.. young women are being put at risk.. television and video age .. sexual violence.. we need to have the law as strong as possible in the Crimes Act.. there’s been insufficient study given to the matter of this Bill..