Media ID 0235-B
Parliamentary Committee Stages (2 April 1986) of the Homosexual Law Reform Bill
Fran Wilde, Geoffrey Palmer, George Gair, Graeme Lee, Jim McLay, John Banks, John Luxton, Merv Wellington, Michael Cullen, Norm Jones, Paul East, Philip Woollaston, Robert Muldoon, Stan Rodger, Trevor Mallard, Venn Young
Committee Stages span 0231 – 0238
This summary gives general themes as to the content of this recording. It is not a verbatim transcript. Always refer back to the original audio. This is a working document and any amendments/corrections are welcome.
Debate on Part One - Age of Consent
Stan Rodger (?) - I propose a middle course.. age of consent should be eighteen.. even in heterosexual relationships
John Banks – I’ll be opposing all of the amendments .. sixteen year olds sodomizing each other.. 13,800 people in the electorate of Whangarei say it’s wrong.. they do not want this Bill at any age [of consent]..
Banks – who wants this Bill.. why this obscene haste to ram through this amendment.. 835,000 people don’t want any part of this Bill.. When this Bill goes into law there will be an amendment that will be supporting 14 years.. This is an evil Bill .. filthy..
Merv Wellington – warning Fran Wilde
Merv Wellington – point of order ..
Chairman – ruling.. warning Merv Wellington.. trifling with the Chair.. withdraw and apologise..
Chairman – the Member (Merv Wellington) is called upon to leave the Chamber.. escort the Member for Papakura from the Chamber
Jim McLay – point of order .. can’t we retrace our steps
Geoffrey Palmer – point of order – there cannot be an excuse for Merv Wellington’s behaviour
Jim McLay – speaking to point of order
Geoffrey Palmer – speaking to point of order.. The conduct was deliberate
Chairman – ruling.. Merv Wellington will not be denied the opportunity to vote
John Banks – point of order, in the interests of democracy.. how do we replace the Chairman with the Deputy Chairman..
Graeme Lee – point of order, speech lengths.. bell every five minutes
Chairman – John Banks has one minute remaining..
John Banks – we are very cross with this Bill.. railroading this Bill through the House.. the way minority Members are being treated .. the majority of New Zealanders don’t want it..
Chairman – John Banks will apologise for comments about the Chair
Banks – I withdraw and apologise
Discussion on how the debate will proceed.. two options: – Members only foreshadow amendments but don’t move them until the end, giving speakers the chance of wide-ranging debate .. or debate only the amendment .. clause-by-clause consideration ..speaking only to that particular amendment..
Trevor Mallard – move an amendment
Paul East – point of order - is it your intention to move paragraph-by-paragraph
Chairman – clarify where we are.. we are looking at George Gair’s amendment – setting the age of consent at eighteen
George Gair - point of order
Michael Cullen – point of order .. being able to speak to any amendment..
Gair – speaking to point of order
Merv Wellington – speaking to point of order .. the Committee is still in a state of confusion
Chairman – we are now with the George Gair’s amendment..
Venn Young – We need to clarify ..the House has determined we take the Bill part-by-part.. and then by amendment-to-that-part.. speaking to amendments that are foreshadowed..
Fran Wilde – there was a general consensus .. suggested course of action..
Merv Wellington - we are in affect back to where we were two weeks ago.. the course of action suggested is not a course incorporated in Standing Orders.. Minister of Defence document.. we should deal with this clause-by-clause..
Michael Cullen – I suggest that Members may be defeating their own ends .. If we stick to the Standing Orders ..It is sensible that amendments are foreshadowed and then put at the end..
Philip Woollaston – amendments at the end
Graeme Lee – we are in a vice grip.. Members should be able to speak in a broader context.. but have the amendments put..
Geoffrey Palmer - the House has to decided to consider this Bill part-by-part..
procedural consequences.. serious
John Luxton – speaker sequence
Robert Muldoon – considerable number of important issues.. If we proceed normally ..
Palmer - If an amendment is moved .. speeches will only be able to speak to the amendment..
Muldoon - I think the Leader of the House is wrong..
Michael Cullen - the amendment before the House is a narrow amendment looking at the age of consent..
Norm Jones – I’m inclined to accept view of the Leader of the House.. concern about being able to speak to the other amendments..
Palmer – every Member has a total of four calls.. there would be no debate at the end when the amendments are put..
Venn Young – point of order..
Chairman - two options, one – Members foreshadow amendments but don’t move them.. wider ranging debate.. the other option – clause-by-clause consideration .. we are currently embarked on a clause-by-clause consideration..