Media ID   0237a-B    

Parliamentary Committee Stages (9 April 1986) of the Homosexual Law Reform Bill

Unique ID



Fran Wilde, Geoff Braybrooke, Graeme Lee, Helen Clarke, Merv Wellington, Neil Morrison, Roger Maxwell, Roger McClay

Related media

0237a-A, 0237b-B


Source tape





9 April 1986







Recorded by


Barry Neels

Deposited by


Barry Neels


Committee Stages span 0231 – 0238


This summary gives general themes as to the content of this recording. It is not a verbatim transcript. Always refer back to the original audio. This is a working document and any amendments/corrections are welcome.



Debate continues on Part Two (anti discrimination)



Roger Maxwell – discrimination.. Scouting.. the amendments may be well intentioned.. I cannot support the Bill.. my decision is made on balance.. some homosexuals need the compassion of the community .. greater understanding from the length of debate



Neil Morrison – I would not like to see people in this country persecuted.. however the Bill strikes at the very basic beliefs of the majority of New Zealanders.. a deep feeling of unease about Part Two..



Morrison –there is something wrong with this type of orientation.. freedom of choice.. respect has to be earned – it cannot be imposed.. situation in our jails.. males in jails..



Morrison – employment.. hard to dismiss employees.



Graeme Lee – Why should this law be changed? To introduce the change would introduce a new standard of right .. a new basis of sexual behaviour..



Lee – International context.. Around the world this clause is being employed in other countries.. They want to be seen as a minority group.. obtaining rights .. they want acceptance.. they’re seeking status.. they want to promote their cause..



Lee – Education.. within the teaching frame work there has been an organisation called the Gay Teachers Organisation.. that should concern every New Zealander.. new teacher applicants being asked would you be prepared to teach homosexuality as a viable lifestyle..



Merv Wellington - point of order ..



Chairman – ruling



Michael Cullen – Member for Hamilton West is not acting as a Whip.



Fran Wilde – The Member for Hamilton West is not a co-promoter of the Bill



Graeme Lee - Post Primary Teachers Association are in favour of this Bill.. that’s the current climate of the education system..



Geoff Braybrooke – it is unnatural for this country to be told by it’s Parliament what they can and can’t discriminate on.. I want to read a few facts in figures ..70% of all venereal diseases treated in Australia are homosexual in nature.. AIDS doubled every two months in Australia .. AIDS.. more young men (15-19) in New York and San Francisco die of AIDS than in car accidents.. international examples..



Braybrooke – reading Noel Mosen .. I oppose the Law Reform Bill.. gay holidays.. sex tourism.. sex with boys of twelve..



Braybrooke - There will be discrimination.. if there is a proliferation of gay bars, churches, community halls .. the average kiwi will not tolerate that kind of behaviour.. This Bill will promote the spread of AIDS.. there will be a public reaction against the gay community.. the discrimination is already there..



Fran Wilde – Noel Mosen .. Mr Mosen was in England.. asked for asylum saying that he would be persecuted by New Zealand laws .. a lot of the information he has supplied about his background is not correct.. This man’s case is extremely bizarre.. The homosexual community has been appalled by his behaviour..



Winston Peters – Fran Wilde needs to substantiate those claims.. promiscuity in homosexuals.. 70% of homosexuals aged between 19 and 55 have more than three sexual partners per week..



Merv Wellington – point of order .. Fran Wilde has a very sensitive microphone in front of her.. the Chairman should restrain her..



Peters – within a very short time she will be held responsible for the fastest growing medical anomaly that this country has.. AIDS.. San Francisco.. number one problem for young men in New York.. it’ll be the tax payer who’ll have to pay for it..



Fran Wilde – I’m not thinking of getting out of politics.. The Homosexual Law Reform Society .. headed by Jim Robb.. incidence of AIDS in New York and San Francisco.. what Winston Peters forgot to mention is that some of the highest amounts of AIDS cases are in Florida which has quite punitive legislation against homosexuality.. there has been a decrease in AIDS cases in San Francisco



Roger McClay – Fran Wilde treats this as an academic exercise.. it must be time for the constitutional expert to give us his advice.. why can’t the Deputy Prime Minister and Prime Minister take a call..



McClay – smoking example.. 830,000 signed a piece of paper saying they didn’t want this nonsense



Merv Wellington – point of order ..



McClay – I want the opinion of the Deputy Prime Minister.. shifting of proof.. rights .. privileges.. reference back to new teacher application..



Helen Clarke – hard to know where to begin.. the Bill is not advocating any special rights for homosexuals .. it’s about equality.. AIDS.. this Bill will be a valuable component in the fight against AIDS.. I support Part Two of the Bill..



Clarke – there are a number of New Zealanders who dislike homosexuality.. but because you believe something doesn’t mean you have the right to carry out that belief that infringes the freedom of others.. any claim made to the Human Rights Commission must go through a lengthy period of investigation.. no room for frivolous claims.. New South Wales law.. The Human Rights Commission has supports this part..



Roger McClay - point of order