Media ID   0191-A    

Norm Jones interviewed by Jessica Weddell (4 May 1985), Holocaust commemoration (6 May 1985) by Wellington’s gay community, and a Gay BC recap on the beginning of public submissions on the Homosexual Law Reform Bill (11 May 1985)

Unique ID



Edith Egar, Jim McLay, Norm Jones, Phil Parkinson, unidentified speakers

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Source tape





4 May 1985, 6 May 1985, 11 May 1985



National Programme, Gay Broadcasting Collective (Access Radio Wellington)



National Programme, Gay Broadcasting Collective (Access Radio Wellington)

Recorded by



Deposited by





This summary gives general themes as to the content of this recording. It is not a verbatim transcript. Always refer back to the original audio. This is a working document and any amendments/corrections are welcome.



Norm Jones interviewed (4 May 1985) by Jessica Weddell (Join Jessica, National Programme). A slightly shorter version of this interview appears on 0241-B.



Norm Jones - this is their last chance.. the increasing frequency of AIDS..



Jones - there's only 13 homosexuals in jail at the moment on homosexual charges.. There hasn't been a prosecution for consenting adults for fourteen years..



Jones - the State isn't in the bedrooms of the nation.. anal intercourse



Jones - between consenting adults.. age of consent is sixteen.. twelve year olds.. let's not talk about consenting adults here.. we are talking about twelve year olds



Jones - what concerns me is the age of twelve.. anal intercourse.. Human Rights Act.. discrimination.. this means you'll have to employ them.. alternative legal lifestyle.. 5% of the population who are homosexuals.. getting pushed down the throat of 95% of the population..



Jones - they clear them out of the police and in the army.. known homosexuals can't even get a license to become a taxi driver.. you can't be a bar owner..



Jones - Under this Bill I wouldn't be able to speak to you now.. poof kept asking me - Why are you wanting to put me in jail Mr Jones..



Jones - Last year, 120 persons charged with homosexual assault.. 125 homosexual persons charged with indecency



Jones - the Bill legalises in public if there's consent.. twelve years of age.. it decriminalises it.. Homosexuals in boarding schools.. scouts.. US Armed Forces .. homosexuals are bad news .. I was never propositioned..



Jessica - homosexuals in public officers..



Jones - San Francisco.. in public office.. 200,000 marched through the streets of San Francisco.. they didn't say there were 600 sitting there with AIDS.. within two years in this country.. we've got twelve cases now.. we could have four or five hundred cases.. That's where AIDS is proliferating.. from the homosexual community.. If they don't get the Bill through this time AIDS itself will see that it never comes in.



Jones - AIDS came from Africa.. high risk groups.. they say they want to come out of the closet.. where they are out of the closet .. 175 cases in New South Wales.. the major spread of it is through the homosexual community.. In San Francisco we've got a whole hospital given over to AIDS cases.. 50% fatality rate with AIDS.. you don't want that here.. the majority are homosexuals..



[The following piece of the interview does not appear on 0241-B]






Jones – what annoys me.. we’ve got this homosexual thing coming into Parliament.. diversions.. we have no defence for this country.. they didn’t go to the Polls on Homosexual Law Reform.. communists.. 24 missile tests into the Pacific since 1978 .. last one from our Chinese friends..



Jones – the common enemy of mankind are the communists



Various news items on the Homosexual Law Reform Bill (National Programme?)



[Homosexual Law Reform] meetings getting out of hand



Petition has gained 344,000 signatures



Jim McClay changes his position on Homosexual Law Reform



Gay BC (11 May 1985) – Access Radio Wellington. Includes audio from the 40th anniversary Holocaust Commemorations held by the Wellington gay community (these were held separately from the official function in protest at the Salvation Army’s participation)






Male: We are here to re-dedicate ourselves to the fight to make sure this never happens again.. homophobia in New Zealand. Prominent citizens have joined in a campaign against us..



Female: After the First World War .. homosexuality in Germany.. Organisation of Human Rights .. 65,000 members .. 50 lesbian clubs and bars in Berlin .. within two months of the Nazis everything was closed down.. The Girlfriend magazine. all closed down.. it was easy for the Nazi’s to pick up the members of the organisations.. membership lists.. it has been enormously difficult to find out what happened to them.. the pink and black triangles..



Female: We do not know your names.. we have not forgotten you.. a female future .. in love, peace and anger..



Male: From at least the 12 Century .. oppression of Jews and Gays.. Dr Edith Egar..



Egar – hand and hand.. how to care.. scapegoat theories.. bigotry is everywhere.. I’d like to read.. why are we so afraid of one another..



music – Topp Twins ‘Mr Ronald Reagan’



Gay BC News



News: Jim McLay is now an opponent of Homosexual Law Reform..



Jim McLay – I would have supported Venn Young’s Bill (8 March 1985)



Rumours about Jim McLay.. the Statutes Revision Committee began hearing submissions on the Homosexual Law Reform Bill.. first submission was from Ascent .. religious groups presenting submissions.. Women’s Action Group, Lesbian and Gay Rights Resource Centre..



Phil Parkinson - line up of the Committee.. format of the hearings.. Committee members ask questions of the submitters.. most of the questioning is taken up by Winston Peters.. other documents tabled.. letters from a gay who was queer bashed.. another letter from a gay who lost his job..



Parkinson – the Resource Centre submission was 122 pages.. three sections.. discrimination in New Zealand, International and AIDS.. not sure how many have read the submission..



Parkinson – advice for those giving submissions.. feel comfortable and confident.. if you’re likely to be rattled it’s probably not a good idea to give an oral presentation.. they’re interested in personal, factual information.. beware of being drawn into arguments about AIDS, incest, adoption, conscience votes..



Parkinson – I was on the stand for three hours.. we could be here beyond Christmas